Fighting Depression, Exhaustion Without Medication
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- http://healthnet.umassmed.edu/mhealth/HAMD.pdf
- NIMH Depression
A detailed booklet that describes Depression symptoms, causes, and treatments, with information on getting help and coping. - Depression (major depression): Symptoms - MayoClinic.com
Depression Comprehensive overview covers symptoms, treatment and coping with this mood disorder. - Depression
Depression: up-to-date and research-based information on depression from the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Adrenal Fatigue in Women | Adrenal Fatigue Symptoms - BodyLogicMD
Adrenal fatigue in women is due to a cortisol hormone imbalance. Adrenal fatigue symptoms are insomnia, depression, midday fatigue, stress and feeling cold. - Depression Basics: Adrenal Fatigue Can Lead to Depression | HealthBee
First a note: depression is not a disease with just one or a few factors that cause it. Many things can be the cause of it and to say that depression is - Depression
Depression, Depression is a mood disorder in which feelings of loss, anger, sadness, or frustration interfere with everyday life. Although everyone feels sad sometimes, depression is persistent and disrupts your daily life. Depression is one of the m - atypical depression - Bing Health
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Why You Should Be Very Careful About Beleving That Positive Thinking "Must Certainly Be" The Solution To A Family Member's, Friend's, or Your Own Mild Depressio
While mild depression is said to the be the most common for of depression, only a percentage of even mild depression (and I have no way to know what that percentage is, of course) is caused or fueled by negative thinking. Sometimes it is caused by what is nothing more than a "physical thing", and sometimes while that may be a "balance" of brain chemicals that result in the mild depression, it isn't even necessarily a flaw in workings of the individual's chemical responses to events, situations, and other external factors.
It's important that people who, in fact, do practice positive thinking and have more than adequate coping skills; as well as anyone wishing to understand depression, or those suffering with symptoms, acknowledge that not all depression involves or is caused/fueled by negative thinking. People who are by nature positive thinkers, and who sometimes manage to fend off depression for a very long time with their positive thinking and coping skills; need "the world" to have a more educated awareness that there is, in fact, depression without negative thinking. For people who are positive thinkers and find themselves battling something that is clearly very physical going on, one of the most frustrating things is a world that seems to suggest that all mild depression is a matter of mind over matter. Or, the other side to that is that "the world" seems to believe that mild depression is not "real depression" because it doesn't include the symptoms of more serious forms of depression.
To people who have mild depression but don't have negative thinking (not as symptom, not a cause, not a contributing factor in any way), a world that suggests they think their way out of depression is like a world that would suggest someone positive-think their way out a chair to which their hands and feet have been securely tied. In fact, I would guess that there are many times when a person who is extremely skilled with positive thinking and coping skills, and who manages to function well enough with his own mild depression that it appears less "serious" to observers not aware of the individual's coping and compensating skills, the some observers would incorrectly assume that the individual's depression wasn't "real" depression at all, and was, in instead, "the run-of-the-mill blahs".
Again, positive thinking is always a good thing and a healthy thinking. Negative thinking is an unhealthy thing (a "bad" thing, although "bad" isn't entirely the most suitable word; but "negative" would make the statement redundant, wouldn't it?).
Still, I think it's important that people for whom depression is absolutely and completely unrelated to thinking; and that it can be as purely physical as, for examples, taking some kind of drug that would bring on a similar mood/exhaustion, not have anyone imply that their flawed thinking is to blame for their depression.
An Informal, Discussion About "Running Out of Steam" (and Having Symptoms Associated With Mild Depression)
Introduction: This Hub was originally going to be a reply in a forum thread about "fighting depression without pills". Well, actually I wasn't sure I had any intention of replying on that thread at all, because it was (as they say) "depressing" enough to read some of the clueless comments already posted on it. That's not saying that all the comments were clueless. It's saying too many were (and so shockingly clueless that I didn't know whether to ignore the thread or reply to it.
Here's the thread (although I don't particularly recommend going to it and reading, mostly because there's really not any helpful information on it): "How to Fight Depression Without Taking Pills".
Although I really would have preferred to write a more polished, well put together, Hub that would offer concrete ideas on this subject; as you'll see later here, I sometimes have to seize some moments to do some things. You see, I am battling what is most likely mild depression. If I were to wait until I'm feeling energetic enough to write a Hub that's not as casual as this, chances are the "inspiration" to write on this particular subject would disappear once I was away from that thread (and this site) for awhile. Instead, I decided to just write down the thoughts on the subject and not worry about putting together a more polished Hub.
My reply (which turned out to be too long for a forum post and, in fact, which turned out to be what many would call a "rant" or a "vent") follows. I've not been diagnosed with mild depression, but there are some things (especially when circumstances are factored in) that, while requiring a professional for a diagnosis, certainly lend themselves to even a non-professional's coming up with (shall I say) "a pretty good idea". The point is, however, that I've not been officially diagnosed with mild depression, and I want you to know that upfront.
So, without further introduction or formality, here's the forum post that I decided would be better turned into a Hub:
(By the way, because I originally wrote this within the forum (but didn't post it), it contains the characters used to create emoticons in forum posts. Normally, I would remove them; but because of the nature of the subject, I've decided to leave them in as a way of giving you an idea of when I'm making a joke or otherwise hoping to indicate a tone to a remark. If it happens that you don't know which emoticon the character-combinations make just disregard the character-combinations and keep in mind that in spite of the subject, and my own situation, I do tend to see quite a bit of humor in a lot of otherwise un-funny things.)
I think I may have mild depression. It started out with a lot of the signs of adrenal exhaustion, but for quite awhile now I have a few symptoms (certainly not all) of mild depression. I know, for a fact, that it's a physical thing and the result of long-term, unrelenting, severe, stress and uncertainty (long-term legal issues, nothing criminal). I have all the coping skills in the world and a positive attitude for the most part. Nobody could keep more busy than I do (all anyone would have to do is look at the number of words I write in a week) and know that that's just in my extra time.
It really irks me that so few people can seem to grasp the concept of a physical condition that can lead to symptoms of depression (whether, in my case, it's adrenal fatigue at a new level or adrenal fatigue AND depression separately. The "big picture" against which I live my otherwise normal-seeming life has been going on for years and years. I used to run on adrenaline. Around 2003 I seemed to have run out. Now it's like I'm a car that needs to keep going even without gas or oil (or else like a previously 8-cylinder car now running on, at this point, 2). :/
I've considered anti-depressants, but even if I'm depressed; I'm not going to risk side-effects over an external situation that has led to my "exhaustion"/"mild depression" - whatever it is. I've considered talk therapy, but in all the time I've been in this legal situation I've talked to the point where I'm all talked out and see no point re-hashing things when what I need are results.
So, I manage by trying to work with those times when I'm actually able to get things done, and do less demanding things when I'm on particularly "low steam" (I never have "high steam", but sometimes it's better than others).
I try to make my environment as pleasant and relaxing and organized as possible. Fresh air, getting out with a friend for a quiet talk, and making lists to help clear my mind help. My biggest problems, besides so often feeling as if I can't move, are not being interested in much of anything and difficulty concentrating to read. Basically, I'm not interested in anything the world has to "offer" me, because what I want from "the world" are some answers, resolution, and a few other things needed to put an end to the legal stuff.
If I have projects to do that involve reading I do them when I'm better able to concentrate. I've figured out how to whisper/read-aloud to myself when I'm reading, because I then take in the information through auditory, rather than visual, means. I notice that my eyes seem "tuned out". In any case, I shift around what parts of projects I do in order to accommodate those times when I just can't concentrate on reading.
I take advantage of some of those times by writing, because even if I can't take in information "from the world", I'm often still able to "send information" out into the world. Sometimes I'll have those times when I can't do that either; but (as anyone who has seen what long stuff I write would know :lol:), I'm usually able to at least write.
What I can't always do is write what requires other reading. So I accommodate that by writing what I know from assimilated knowledge.
I've learned that I can get things done if I plan and make sure there's no pressure to hurry. So, I plan ahead and make sure I'm always early for everything; always have everything all ready to go, and don't create stress by having to hurry or think of stuff I could have thought of the night before.
A drink that calms me down is mild coffee with lots of light cream in it. I assume the fat in the cream is calming. If I'm really, really, frazzled/exhausted I'll add a little sugar. I figure the carbohydrate boost gives me "mental energy". I know this is against what is advised for both adrenal fatigue and depression, but what's advised is often "lots of rest, no caffeine and sugar, and a good healthy diet." Well, none of those things is going to happen unless/until I find myself a luxurious "rest home" - and that's not going to happen either (and I wouldn't want that anyway). I'm managing.
The hardest thing is people not "getting it". I look OK. I act OK. I laugh more frequently than a lot of people do. I get all kinds of work done, and my positive attitude shows up when I'm with people. Part of that is that I do manage it reasonably well. Part of it is that I do hide it because people don't get it. They either think it's attitude or boredom, or whatever they think it is. THEN, if they DO believe it's depression they'll talk about getting help (and there isn't help for the person who refused to risk side-effects and knows that talking therapy wouldn't just be useless, but would be even MORE depressing and irksome. :/)
So, I manage it. I'm a mother. I can't just wallow in it or let it stop me functioning. Even if I weren't a mother I wouldn't want it too. I'm stronger than that, and I somehow find ways to manage with it. Still, it's aggravating (and depressing ) to have to break up tasks in so many simple, smaller, ones in order to eventually get the whole, more complicated, task done.
Oh.. The other bunch of people who don't get it are those who say, "Well, if it's the situation, then change it." Again, not possible unless/until the legal stuff is straightened out. Plain and simple. Oh - and I prioritize. I "structure" every set of tasks I have to do by priority, breaking them down into smaller tasks, setting a time for when I'll do some simple thing (like damp mop the bathroom floor, or throw the laundry in). If it's 10:00, and I know that at 12 I'll be throwing in the laundry, I have "warning", but can also free my head of thinking when I'll feel up to doing it. Although I have a flexible schedule and don't tend to be someone who is "ruled by clocks", I do rely on the clock (and the calendar) to help me structure an overload of tasks (or even worries, other thoughts) that can feel overwhelming without some structure.
I live with it. I don't get as much done as I otherwise would, or else it takes me longer to get things done. Still, I'm still running (even if on 2 cylinders) and only "stall out" sometimes. I make sure I get up two hours before I have to be anywhere, or do anything; because that's how it long it takes to "get my brain up and running". One problem is I often can't make a phone call because if it's business I can't muster up the energy to deal with it, and if it's personal I'm not energetic enough to feel like talking.
Believe it or not, on Tuesday mornings (when I have the house completely to myself) I sit for awhile and talk aloud to myself about whatever comes to mind. It helps sort things out. (It's great to talk to the only person who really understand what I'm dealing with. :lol: :lol: )
One of the few areas in which I still have "high steam" is with writing. (I guess the word-supply and typing fingers must be the last go. :) ). So, in my "steering into the skid" approach to dealing with signs of mild depression, I make sure I spend lots of time on those things that are NOT a challenge for me. One of those things is writing.
When I'm writing I get to "still be the 8-cylinder me" :). It's my chance to remind myself that I can still be me sometimes. (Basically, I think I can write because there's no getting up and having to do physical work. That's the thing - the exhaustion and the trouble doing physical work. Sometimes I'll feel like I have a little extra energy and go do something like rake the yard. When I come in I shake and have some kind of weird anxiety. So another part of dealing with it is knowing not to take on too much physical work at one time (and to stop before I get tired, rather than keep going until I run out of steam).
I don't now who these people are with that " keep busy" foolishness. :mad: The last thing someone with depression needs is to "keep busy" and never take time to rest, physically and mentally. Breaking up the day with those different types of structure I mentioned, and with mini-breaks and rests (not long ones, but enough to be a break) is what helps.
What do people think? That someone with depression is sitting on a couch and thinking all day? I have my "day job" projects/business, a house, a yard, a family, friends, a little bit of social life - and then I'm on here with my "mini-business" of writing (and sometimes write 7000 or more words in a few hours. Up until not long ago, I'd been walking miles and miles each week. I can't do that now.
Regardless of the cause of my own "depression" (or whatever it is), I know what has caused it. No normal person would be able to keep happily going on the way I did for years and years before I eventually started running out steam. Whatever is causing is external, but at this point it is, I can tell (without going into personal symptoms etc.,) that it is a matter of brain chemicals/stress hormones, etc.). It's a medical condition at this point, but I reject the notion that it is a "disease".
One thing I'll say about "depression" is that what's "depressing" is seeing the numbers of people who truly don't have a clue when it comes to understanding it.
People with mild depression are the people who often manage to generally function and keep working, but who have the kind of trouble I've been having. It's a different thing than more serious depression, but many people who keep functioning somehow have mild depression. One problem is, who wants to risk some of those side effects if the depression is only mild? I don't. I'd rather be exhausted and out of steam than risk side effects like "suicidal tendencies", seizures, or whatever else that stuff does.
Contrary to the apparently popular belief on the thread in question, in my own case what has most likely turned into depression from "emotional exhaustion" caused by a bizarre level or unrelenting uncertainty and stress with the legal situation, has led to having ever increasing and very serious matters on my mind, in addition to the more "usual" form of extreme stress. It isn't just stress, though. It's essentially having not just stressful things on my mind, but stressful things and/or loss on my mind to the point where day-to-day thinking, and sometimes even very happy thinking, can be "crowded out" by the larger issues. Basically, it's a matter of having far too much to have to deal with on such a long-term, regular, basis.
I'm not talking about having "busy days" that are a challenge. I'm talking about stress and loss that has not only been coming for over a decade, but that keeps coming in one form or another not just for me, but for pretty much everyone else in my life. On the one hand, we're all fine. We're solid individuals with positive attitudes and the ability to keep going. At the same time, there's really only so much people can take for so long without having it (for example) start to wear away at their energy level after the first twenty years. I'd love to be able to put in writing every last little, and huge, thing there has been to cope with; but I'm not going to put my personal business (to that extent) on the Internet. A friend once mentioned to me how people's lives are like a cake with frosting. She said how some people get their troubles in the form of a big glob of frosting dumped on one fairly small area of the cake. Then she said how some people seem to have their troubles come in the form of a whole other layer of frosting that's thinner but spread over the entire cake. She pointed out that my life was like the latter "frosting situation".
When it comes to thinking about trying anti-depressants, besides side-effects I'm concerned that they may cause other problems that are more serious than "just" living with signs of mild depression. It takes all the energy I have to control my thinking enough that I don't let a lot of loss, sadness, worry, or stress get the upper hand, and make being clear-headed too difficult. I count on my natural ability to be able to control my own thoughts and be able to generally be "reasonably OK". I don't want to "mess with" my own brain chemicals, because I worry that if something were changed there might be the chance I'd be less able to control my own thoughts (and maybe to the point where they'd become overwhelming).
While I'm not happy to have this problem to have to manage, and while I'd like to see my own energy level return, I've seen for myself how "natural management" of this kind of thing has, until more recent years, worked fairly well. I'm just not comfortable "handing over the reigns" of my brain chemicals to drug.
One day I'll return to this Hub and address the subject in a more formal, more informative, way. FOr today, the informal discussion has to do.
Some Seemingly Unrelated Thoughts in Response to ahorseback's Comment Above.
ahoreseback, thank you for contributing here. I know that each person who is/believes he is dealing with depression is different; and I know the comments I'm going to make are just kind of "out of thin air" (rather than my, or your, seeing them as directed specifically at you). I guess I'm careful to say that because I know too well how aggravating it is to have well intended people think they know what you're dealing with and offering input that simply doesn't apply. In any case, I'm going to base my comments only on what you're presented in the comment box here.
In Response to ahoresback's comment: Part I (I'd like to return with a Part II in another day or so, because Part I really needs to act as a foundation for a Part II, which will, I believe, be more to the (useful) point than just this one Part I response section is.)
What's Below Are Thoughts I Had After You Raised The Point About "Easy Going"
I have no idea whether you'll want to read all this or not (but someone else may), and I have no idea if it's just a bunch of thoughts that are absolutely useless. I'm posting them anyway with apologizes if they are useless.
When you say you're "easy going" that remark struck me because people tend to think I'm easy going. It irks the heck out of me when they think that because I'm not easy going. I only look and come across that way on the outside. Like so many people (including my own now grown kids), I'm reasonable, understanding of others mistakes that comes from their not knowing any better, and very much someone who likes and respects people. Also, I know the importance of relationships, letting some things go, and choosing to be the grown-up and not letting an otherwise loving relationship be destroyed over the "small stuff" (which isn't always all that small). I see self-control as important because I'm someone who has a sense of dignity and self-respect, but also because as soon as someone else loses control of himself (his temper), he's lost my respect.
I'm "packaged" in a woman's small frame, and I have a face that tends to mislead any people misguided enough to judge books by their cover. "Everybody knows" that 'short equals child'/'tall' equals grown-up" and some people "know" that "woman equals 'can't-possibly-be- stronger-or-smarter-than-a-man,-and-is-only-sometimes-a-little-stronger-than-or-smarter-than-a-child". Yes, this is 2011; and yes, a lot has changed for women over the years; but a lot of that change has come only in the forms of laws or lip-service
However, I'm far from easy going. No, I'm not someone who'll do temper tantrums, yell at people, disregard other people's feelings, etc. etc., but that's a matter of being "well behaved" and "understanding" - not of "easy going nature". I'm wondering if it may be the same for you. (I know men for whom it's the same, so the "woman thing" is just a small part of it.)
This part's going to be hard to say because I value these traits in myself and others, but I'm by nature a modest/humble person enough that I'm uncomfortable saying it. Anyway: I'm really strong, solid, person with a lot "mental energy". I'm deliberate when it comes to my life and how I manage it. I'm reasonable and logical and fairly "driven" when it comes to my life, plans for it, and responsibilities. I'm not "some cold, robot-like, driven" person, though; because there's the very human ("kinder, gentler") side (which is actually a core, rather than a side, I guess) that's every bit as powerful as that more "driven" side (also core, I suppose) of me.
I think one of the biggest problems for perfectly nice, well adjusted, and modest people (and a whole lot of them are, so I'll tell "modest" self that I speaking for "all of us" - not just me) is that the world doesn't see how "high energy" or "high power" or strong they are. Most people (some less than others) just don't look or act like The Incredible Hulk. Some people will display their "Hulk" side when they display their bad natures in fits of temper, or even in other, less "dramatic", bad behavior; so for them, the world figures out that they're not "easy going".
With people who operate (or usually operate, at least) as the more well behaved, understanding, variety of people do; the only thing anyone has to judge them by is their appearance, demeanor, and track record (which in the eyes of some people can also include the more superficial measures of power, such as expensive cars and powerful positions in society). Since a good number of "regular, everyday, type" people don't "big, impressive" cars and don't work at the highest levels of corporations (etc.), the only thing they have beyond their "packaging" is that track record.
Since the world often misinterprets what these well behaved and understanding people do, the track record is often skewed. Even if it isn't, though, it usually includes a long history of being well behaved, reasonable, and understanding. One problem is that we live in a world that so often hasn't figured out that being "nice or understanding" isn't a matter of being too stupid or too weak to be anything other than nice and understanding. It doesn't help that the well behaved and understanding people often put up with taking a backseat, out-on-line remarks, or any number of other things that are essentially mild forms (and sometimes not so mild) forms of mistreatment; because that only confirms to the world how easy going (and weak and "not knowing enough to stand up for themselves") the well behaved people are. The fact is, in many, many, cases when someone tends to "let others get away with something" it's the exact opposite of being weak and not having enough self-esteem, self-respect, or overall knowledge that nobody deserves some treatment.
The well behaved and understanding people of the world are the "grown-ups" of the world, regardless of their chronological age. These are the people who understand others who aren't so grown-up and/or who are in situations that have driven them to behave as if they're not.
It's important to note that when I use the term, "well behaved", here I mean people who generally have no trouble functioning among people in society and people who are mature enough that when they make mistakes or use bad judgment, it's usually related to something that goes on in personal relationships or in their own personal lives (as opposed to being people who are "out making trouble" and "running into trouble" in the larger society). When I use the term with regard to child, I don't mean kids who never do anything they shouldn't do. All kids do "stupid kid stuff". Some (most, I suspect) are far more mature "inside" than most people would imagine they are.
Another important note is this: Although I certainly don't have statistics on the number of people who are, "on the inside", among those who are well behaved, understanding, and reasonable people; I'm going to guess that (at least in civilized cultures where the most severe forms of deprivation either don't, or only rarely, exist) the majority of people would fall under this "well behaved and grown-up" category. After all, while there are certainly plenty of children who don't come from homes in which there are loving parents (or other parental figures), it's a pretty natural thing for most people to love and nurture their babies well enough, at least, that they get to school age with a certain degree of emotional maturity (some more than others, of course).
One common mistake people make is believing that "maturity" (even "emotional maturity") is measured by weather a young child is "grown up enough" or "brave enough" not to fear things like learning to ride a bike, swimming, or even strangers. In an article on the age at which child walk, Dr. Sears (or Ask Dr Sears .com) pointed out that "more thoughtful" children are often those who are less daring and less likely to walk earlier than average. We live in a society that still doesn't recognize "thoughtfulness" (as Dr. Sears referred to it) as "maturity". Instead, its still common that bravery, bravado, daring, and athletic prowess be viewed as "mature" and "most admirable" (especially by, and in, boys and men). It does make one wonder if the most grown-up little boys may be more prone to being more "invisible" in this world than others; and I can't help but suspect that when/if a little boy will spend a good part of formative years feeling invisible, he's either going to "turn inward" and become politely but non-aggressively depressed; or else (and maybe only if he's angry enough for a long enough time) his anger/resentment as well as his adolescent/teen hormones will make him turn "outward" more aggressively.
I'm not suggesting this isn't a problem for girls as well, but I think the process of girls turning inward, but perhaps even the matter of women and some types of depression, have a different set of components to them much of the time. In the interest of not adding yet more length to these remarks, I'll leave the above remarks about boys to speak for themselves, without going on to the specifically considering issues associated with girls and women. I do know that people of both sexes do have some "elements" in common when it comes to this subject.
If you're surprised that I'm making that "guess" I did above because you know how many people
have problems in life and in relationship, and you've seen a whole lot of bad behavior (not aggressive behavior, maybe; but bad behavior/choices nonetheless);
The well behaved and understanding people of the world often feel fortunate that they have the skills and understanding they do, and they understand themselves and others just that much more than a lot of less understanding and reasonable people do. These grown-ups of the world know they have a role to play, and responsbility, when it comes to those in the world who aren't as grown up (even if many people are "almost-but-not-quite-as"). Since they're as grown up and solid as they are, they aren't about to do anything but live up to that role and responsibility. (That's not what solid, strong, grown-ups do.)
These well behaved and grown up people not only know that others have needs (and more pressing or important ones than their own), they're willing to place the needs of others before their own. In a world there others with needs (emotional, financial, whatever) so often outnumber people with no immediate needs; and in a world where the needs of children, elderly, and the otherwise more vulnerable must always be put first; the grown ups of the world are more than willing to place their own needs last. Something else is that the well adjusted and understanding grown ups of the world don't have the kind of ego that some people, who never quite outgrew their own enough in early childhood, have. As a result, the grown-ups of the world tend to see others' needs and problems as more pressing than their own (even if "on an intellectual level" they know their own problems/needs are often of equal or greater importance than someone elses's). They don't have a shred of resentment over putting themselves last (or being placed last) on the "needs list", because they are so very damned reasonable and understanding. Inside, they're thankful that they are among the grown ups of the world. In fact, one the things they most like about themselves, and from which they have built their own sense of sense esteem, is just that.
One problem for the grown ups of the world is that, while they are very likely to win in a reasonable debate, they don't do well when having verbal disagreements with unreasonable people. The well behaved, reasonable, people of the world don't have a "supply" of unreasonable verbal ammunition that they can hurl at their opponent. It's just not there because they're processsed their own anger and figured out a way to understand what they don't understand. They're grown up enough to be able to control their own tempers and words. The grown ups of the world, always knowing the importance of not destroying relationships or verbally hurting someone to the point he'll never forget the degree of hurt or shame inflicted on him, will never verbally hit below the belt. They just won't. It is frusterating not to but as the grown-ups they are, they love and protect as grown-ups do. Since it's really only possible to cause the effects of "hitting below the belt" in personal relationships, the stakes and the love and the need not to hurt the other person are all high. In fact, those things are the driving force behind the well behaved grown-up, because grown-ups know that while "nobody is going to die from someone's use of words on them", the devastating words of someone a non-grown-up loves, trusts, and maybe even takes advantage of; permanently break hearts and, at best, fracture families and relationships.
Besides the matter of dealing with conflict between people, there's also the matter of dealing with people we care about who are even "on the same page" as we are. There can be things that one person really needs to say, or ask, but won't because he knows it's such a painful subject for both people involved (often with both being well behaved grown-ups) that the raising some subjects (at least for the time-being) actually would be counter-productive to the efforts of both to keep from feeling too "depressed").
It's not just matters of verbal interaction, however. The best example I have is that of a conversation I had with my own two sons. Both boys were strong, solid, mature boys "on the inside" but very energetic and positive kids who generally liked people "on the outside". They're five years apart in age, but each had a little run of having a more aggressive boy bully them for a little stretch of time. Both of my sons were small, slender, boys who were about as far from looking like "little bruts" as any kind could be; so every so often they'd run into a kid who tried to bully them. We were talking one day, and my littlest son (then about nine, I guess) said, "I hate that I let him get away with it. I could REALLY hurt him (REALLY hurt him) if I wanted to, but I don't want to hurt a kid. He's a kid. You know? Besides, I don't want what would go on if I did really hurt him." When my younger son said that his older brother joined and, and both began to talk about how the only reason bullies "won" was that neither wanted to REALLY hurt the other kid. They both said how if they were adults and in a similar situation, they'd be more ready to really hurt an attacker.
The thing with a lot of well behaved and understanding grown-ups is that they've been raised by parents who are the same. It's a plan we parents have and follow through on. It takes a lot of work to raise one of those well behaved and understanding grown-ups. I was raised by such parents, so I grew up hearing the importance of all the traits associated with becoming a well behaved and understanding grown-up. I grew up hearing the very correct message that the only thing that matters in life is that a person is a good, honest, kind person who respects himself and others. I wasn't raised to believe that being "nice" or polite or well behaved amounts to being "too stupid or weak to be otherwise". I grew up sorting out the well behaved grown-ups (and admiring them for being that) from those who never quite got there (and who got my respect as human being, of course, but not my admiration when it came to this particular area).
As it is, however, the well behaved grown-ups of the world tend, apparently, to spring up from limited little circles (families) that must live in a much larger world where valuing being nice is often unheard of (at least when it comes to chronological grown-ups; people often value "nice" in children). That's, maybe, the thing: People tend to value and want niceness and good behavior in children (not all people, but many); but the irony is that the very emotional maturity that so often makes for a well behaved child later becomes associated with immaturity and/or weakness in adults.
Children who will eventually become those well behaved and understanding grown-ups ("by nature" rather than by virtue of learning the "rules of what a grown-up ought to be/do") are well on their way long before they being their school years. So, it's early that such children begin to feel invisible, at least in some ways, to adults or older kids around them. Because the world is so full of people who don't recognize this type of emotional maturity, and who, in fact, often
interpret signs of it as something else; the younger of the "well behaved grown-ups" of the world ,may behave respectfully toward someone whose actions/words they may not always respect very much (at least in some ways). That may well be when a lot of people begin internalizing a lot of things.
Children who show signs of being strong are often not seen as being "grown-up for their age". Often, the demonstration of maturity is condescendingly (and even resentfully) referred to as "having a mind of their own". Some parents, more than others, actually value seeing a child show signs of having a mind of his own; but even when they do, depending on the issue at hand (and often associated with the age of the child), a child with a mind of his own and the wish to be seen as the grown-up he's so often felt like he is; sometimes that strong mind a child has can worry (even threaten) parents (sometimes rightfully so, but not always).
I'm guessing that as they grow up, the most reasonable, emotionally mature, and understanding of kids gradually learns to keep things inside. After all, well adjusted and whole kids are capable of forming strong bonds with the parents they love, and who love them. As "well behaved grown-up" individuals, kids take on the responsibility of protecting the feelings and emotions of those people they love. They won't intentionally hurt, disappoint, or worry parents. There's a lot they just won't say. I recall being about five or six years old, lying awake in bed, and starting to worry about my parents dying. (It's normal for young kids to do that.) Well, I got myself crying and crying. My parents came in and saw that I was crying. They kept asking why I was crying. I kept saying that I didn't know. My mother kept saying, "You have to know why you're crying." I insisted that I didn't. They kept asking me, and said how they could probably help if I'd just tell them what was bothering me. Even if I'd wanted to tell them, there was no way, at that age, that I could make myself say those words. Besides, my own discomfort with even voicing such ideas, I "knew" that there was something "unacceptable" about saying to my parents, "I'm worried that you're going to die." "Die" is a powerful word, and a child's bond with/love for/dependence on his parents is even more powerful.
Te point is that (maybe particularly for those of us who ARE, in fact, understanding and mature as people; there are things on which we either choose to draw the line with regard to what we express, but there are also things that create the sense of a "short-circuit" in our getting words from our brains to our voices. The very things that make people well adjusted and mature can also be the things that create the challenges.
There are people who don't have such powerful bonds with, or love for, even the people they do (in their own way) love. There are people who would say, "Just say what you have to say instead of keeping it inside". The grown-up and understanding among us often know that we are, in fact, correct in our assessment of some of the consequences of "just saying what we feel".
So, by virtue of understanding themselves, others, human nature, and consequences; those well behaved and understanding grown-ups of the world learn, from a very young age, the price of expressing oneself candidly. The most well adjusted among us have learned how to express "a good part of what's on our mine", and we've often figured out ways to express small parts of what's on our mind in incremental doses. Sometimes, maybe, some passive-aggressive behaviors could be attributed to this kind of thing. In any case, a whole lot of people in this world have learned (and rightfully and selflessly so) to keep a whole lot of what's bothering them inside. In the 1980's Cosby Show, Claire Huxtable was trying to encourage her husband to express his feelings. She made a comment about how he had things all "bottled up". Bill Cosby's character's response was something along the lines of, "Some things SHOULD be bottled up."
The point is, a whole lot of us learn to "bottle up" what we think and feel. In fact, I'd venture to guess that the most well adjusted, well behaved, understand, and reasonable of people are, in fact, more likely to have learned to bottle up what they think and feel for one reason or another (and not necessarily because they've had parents who wanted them to do such a thing).
The may be energetic, intellectually curious, even powerful people who are assertive enough when it comes to dealing with day-to-day problems in a "civilized way". What they have difficult with is holding their own againt aggression and/or lack of reason. These are often people who aren't at all aggressive (because they've always been so understanding, respectful, and reasonable when it comes to others). They're people who can well hold their own in a debate or argument with someone else who bases his side on provable facts, logic, and reason. They just don't have that "reserve of 'hostile-crazy'" from which to find words to hurl out in a disagreement. As a result, and not being willing to verbally hit below the belt, people like this will find that the other person not only believes he's won, but that the more reasonable person is weaker than he is.
A whole lot of unreasonable and aggressive behavior actually comes out of insecurity, fear, and lack of skills. These are the signs of a person's not being a very strong person. The mistaken impression by many, however, is that the individual who remains civil, reasoned, and even silent in a verbal confrontation is the "weak" one. The only way he's weak is that he's weak in "crazy-hostility" skills.
What's unfortunate is that we live in a world that is so often misguided and ignorant when it comes to those "easy going" people or anyone else who does't bulldoze his way through life with about as much understanding of human beings as the ground on which that bulldozer rumbles its way over anything in its path.
The point is, in my "well rounded" (LOL) way, there's a whole lot of "power", activity, stress, etc. going on in that head of those well behaved and reasonable grown-ups of the world; and perhaps a good part of the time it can be pretty difficult to find someone who even has a rough idea of what some of those well behaved, understanding, grown-ups (and "grown-up" children, as well) are dealing with without support.
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Hi Lisa , Wow .. I don't even know how to respond. But this hub caught my eye because of my own situation. I feel that I want to say so much and I don't want to say a thing. But you decribe my life to a tee. Depression and anxiety seem to go hand in hand and I believe that everyone reacts differently to any , all , or no treatments at all! I took the medication! There I said it , lol. but then I have to , mine is not minor, mild or self controlled. Although I lived with this my entire life I never was diagnosed until three years ago . I began with a mild dosage of one or another medication , switched because of side affects and then increased my dossage . I think clinical ~ physicle depression is the most mis- understood desease of many. So many people put you in categories, "moody , angry...Blah blah blah". The drugs help ! Writing helps ! But I think that the best thing I've done for me is to accept it all. I have as well a quiet laid back and easy going nature. So everything for me was internalized [not good}, but the worse part , for me, was anxiety . Thats the real killer. I don't know that I will ever get that one under control , ever seen a quiet laid back guy suffering from anxiety LOL ? I hope that whatever you do you continue to talk about it and at least treat yourself, in exceptance , in attaining peace , serenity and understanding. And you know what ....to hell with the forums and waiting for others to understand! One good friend is worth all the forums and hubs in the world ! I wish you good luck and serenity !Excellent hub by the way....:-}
Lisa - I'm glad you wrote this hub, this way. Depression is such a personal thing and so easily discounted by those who assume that people who suffer from it are being self-indulgent. Most of us are very high achievers, not lazy at all, and sometimes part of our problem is our high self-expectations. But it isn't like it just comes like a disease, suddenly, and for no reason. A person's whole life has to be taken into consideration. And even then maybe the true causes will stay hidden. I've been treated for a long time off and on for what I call a moderate depression combined with obsessive compulsive disorder and anxiety and ptsd. Moderate, not severe, only because I can still function, but I have severe anxiety attacks (throwing up, feeling faint like I can't breath, heart beating like crazy) and days of ups and downs just like you described. The psych meds don't work for me, because they make the anxiety worse when I can't DO anything, and if I can't do things I'm really depressed. So the best thing I've tried is vitamin therapy using spirulina for the B vitamins and vitamins A and D, along with glucosomine and a high dose multi-vitamins and minerals. Eating a lot of veggies and high fiber foods and trying(trying and trying) to eliminate the refined sugars and carbs and red meats. OK. Other than that, some solitude and restful times and very regular meals and sleep times (I treat myself like I'm a sickly, cranky child who needs those things). I also now live with people who really do not want to hear about my problems. That sounds harsh, but it is very good for me not to be able to rehash how bad I've felt for so many years and the reasons why and get trapped by my nostalgia (I don't know what else to call it) for the major horrible events and people in my life. I try to stay away from that and live as if I'm totally normal, enjoying small wonderful things each day and most of the time it works. I still have lethargy that comes over me like a wave, but since I'm a caregiver I have to be here for someone else, I work through it and its like walking a long distance under water. It takes a long time to get there and then I'll suddenly wake up and its a beautiful day again. I never feel totally happy with myself, and that is the hardest part. I try a memory exercise where I do my best to remember every part of how it felt to be quite small and young and healthy and feeling spectacularly good (rare, but those times did happen for me long ago) and if I do that meditation often enough it helps bring me around to hope and the ability to enjoy again. I do completely understand what you described and I hope you will not give up, because I know that things like the vitamins, sleep, the routines, avoiding mean people and giving yourself constant positive feedback (affirmations) will help you. Plus, you are now out of the depression closet and come to others like me for feedback and to share the ups and downs. I know there are many who understand and are finding things that work to make us feel better. Oh and don't forget massage - massage works wonders.
Lisa, you described depression quite accurately...and there is probably not a one size fits all...I understand about the adrenal fatique...mind and body is connected...the body under adrenal fatique is the the 8 cylinder running on 2...it keeps trying, but just doesn't have the power it needs.
I recently wrote an article on depression, but took it down temporarily.
I can understand how talk therapy would not be helpful, if it is just going over and over the same thought, cycles and words...now if each time you talked about it, you moved farther away from the depression...even if in small increments, it would be worth it.
Depression is one of those thing that many people scoff at. It is a deeply hurtful and personal thing. You have managed to write an article that can be viewed and understood by many different types of people. Very well written and sensitive. Up and awesome.
Oh if only there were nothing to cure but then that would create depression amongst the doctors. I wonder who would cure them. :P
your comment can make a hub ..so much you write and the beauty of writing never suffers, that's great to have a hubber like you. I learned a lot how to involve and write.
It seems to me you do have a grip on your own situation, Lisa. Good advice for others may not be the right thing for you, and you're smart enough to realize that and find your own ways to cope, which you've been kind and generous enough to share with us here.
I suffered myself from a mild depression caused by some relentless menopause symptoms; hot flashes, dizzy spells brought on by hot flashes, cramping pains. I had to handle it my own way--the meds they gave me made me entirely sleepless; in the end I managed to ride it out. The time seemed endless but I am so glad it's over, it was almost worth going through just for the relief of getting to the other side.
I'm sure you'll get to the other side, too, Lisa, then look back on this and be so happily relieved to have your entire life back.



















earnestshub Level 2 Commenter 9 months ago
I think this hub will be useful for those with depression caused as it often is by constant pressure that is more than a life nuisance. I know several people who suffer with clinical depression which can be totally debilitating and as bad as it is, some medications make it worse and few if any help at all. It is in need of much research.